State Sen. Bob Beers speaks Thursday during a debate on his Tax and Spending Control initiative at Palace Station. At left is political consultant Terry Murphy, a Democrat, who spoke in opposition to the proposal. Van Heffner, center, moderated the debate for the Nevada Tourism Alliance. Photo by Clint Karlsen.

Opposing sides in the debate over government costs and services argued over the Tax and Spending Control initiative Thursday, trading enough bow shots to suggest how next year's gubernatorial campaign might take shape.

State Sen. Bob Beers, R-Las Vegas, argued that TASC is needed because government growth is outpacing that of the private sector. He referred to the tax increase approved by the 2003 Legislature as the "giant mouse our snake of a government consumed" and is still trying to swallow.

Political consultant Terry Murphy, a Democrat who works with local governments and candidates, said the initiative creates a "false index" that assumes growth pays for itself.

Lobbyists, business and gaming representatives, and supporters of limiting government took notes for 90 minutes during the event at Palace Station sponsored by the Nevada Tourism Alliance, a newly formed advocacy coalition representing gaming and tourism interests.

Beers, a gubernatorial candidate, filed his proposed constitutional amendment this week seeking to limit government revenue to the previous year's revenues adjusted for population growth and inflation. Any surplus would be earmarked for savings accounts to a certain ceiling, with additional revenues being refunded to taxpayers. Any tax or fee increase would have to be approved by voters.

"Government has become a big enough percentage of our lives, and the existing process to ensure that government doesn't become a greater percentage of our lives isn't working," Beers argued.

Murphy said the term "tax and spending control" sounds better than it is. "I would say most of you are in favor of going to heaven one day, but you don't want to die," she said.

Murphy argued that tying all government services to the rate of inflation and population growth won't work.

In 2003, she said, Clark County's revenues grew 6 percent while the caseload at Child Haven, the county's temporary home for abused and neglected children, grew 29 percent. If she were a school superintendent facing a 30 percent increase in gasoline prices and a 20 percent rise in energy costs, Murphy asked, "Do I stop taking 20 to 30 percent of children to school?"

The two proved worthy foils in the debate that is expected to cut across the gubernatorial race next year.

Beers' group must get more than 83,000 signatures by June if it is to qualify the measure for next year's general election. Voters then would have to pass it twice before it could take effect in 2009.

Murphy referred to the Colorado Taxpayer Bill of Rights, which voters last month decided to circumvent because of that state's fiscal problems. Beers has modeled his initiative after the Colorado plan.

Murphy asked what impact TASC would have had on Nevada if it had been in place since the 1980s.

Beers responded that public employees probably wouldn't make as much money today if that were the case. He said he had not analyzed how much money would have been rebated or whether it would have worked to stifle growth.

"Perhaps what we ought to be discussing is how to constrain salaries, not put all growth to a vote of the people," Murphy said.

She also asked about unfunded federal mandates and whether TASC might bankrupt certain government sectors.

"It comes down to a matter of philosophy," Beers said. "Do we need more government or less government or the same government?"

He said TASC creates enough savings accounts to stave off emergencies or budgetary downturns, but he also addressed the hypothetical that Murphy had raised.

"As our economy tanked, people would go back home," Beers said, referring to how residents would have returned to their home states.

Near the end of the debate, Terina Salerno of American Wagering asked Beers what purpose elected representatives would have in the event his initiative succeeded.

"If you are not smart enough or honest enough to spend our tax dollars, then whose fault is it?" she asked.

Beers responded: "The backstop that is there now is 63 legislators and a boatload of public sector lobbyists and a smaller boat of private sector lobbyists."

The two went back and forth for about five minutes until moderator Van Heffner, chief executive officer of the tourism group, asked them to finish their conversation later.